Creator Kit Episode 14: Powder Blue Media's Nathan Graber-Lipperman on World Building

Creator Kit
Creator Kit
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Cover Image for Creator Kit Episode 14: Powder Blue Media's Nathan Graber-Lipperman on World Building

In this week's episode, we talk with the Founder and CEO of Powder Blue Media about how creators can build lasting businesses.

Each episode of Creator Kit is a deep dive on a particular tool or service that can help you take your creator business to the next level. Creator Kit is presented by HiBeam: we solve comment and DM overload for creators; follow HiBeam on Twitter and subscribe on YouTube for more great content.

This Episode of Creator Kit is also available in video form on YouTube. You can also subscribe on iTunes, stream on Spotify, or plug our RSS feed in your player of choice.

Nathan Graber-Lipperman is the Founder and CEO of Powder Blue Media, an agency that helps creators build businesses that last. On today's show, we talk about world building, Nathan's thesis on how creators can execute for the long term by building content ecosystems.

Along the way, we touch on everything from J. Cole to J.R.R. Tolkien, to TikTok, and why Nathan is publishing a magazine in 2022.

Here are some of our favorite takeaways from the conversation:

1. Creators should build thoughtfully

The creator ecosystem in 2022 is ripe with opportunity, and creator businesses have unique flexibility to try new content forms and monetization efforts. Nathan argues that creators should be careful and thoughtful about how each arm of the business can feed the others.

"There's a million different platforms out there right now, right? It's like, "Oh, should I... Have a Discord? Should I be on Patreon? Should I being doing this, this, or that?". It's really hard to organize. What are my 3 or 4 core things I should be focusing on, and how do they work together? What value does my TikTok Give to my merch line, and what value does my merch line give to my TikTok? And it's really just determining: "What are my long term missions, values, vision, and why..." It's not only "what am I doing" but "why am I doing it, and how am I doing it?". Because again, you can be on 10 different platforms and doing all these different things, but if you're doing that, your focus is just split way too much and you're not gonna be able to execute.

2. Longevity doesn't always come naturally

By momentarily stepping back from the creative process and thinking strategically, creators can make choices that will ensure their brand is around for the long haul.

"Trends come and go, but you really want to build things that last, especially as your fans might grow up and create new connections to your work. You (yourself) might grow up and your priorities might change. You just have to really take that long term approach, and just think: "Okay. What can I do to set up my business, and my content so that I can have longevity in this space, so that five years down the road, you know, everything I created up until this point is still, you know, creating new meaning, and there's still new things to unpack with my fans.""

3. Creators are storytellers, and all epic stories need a map

Strategic world building can help creators show up consistently - where each new effort is an additive layer (rather than a departure from) the brand. Nathan says that creators can learn from creative geniuses like Tolkien.

"J. R. R. Tolkien, the author of Lord of the Rings said once that to compose a map from a story is a weary business. So basically, this idea that you can start writing a book like LOTR, but if you don't know how far mountains are between each other, right? Or like, how the elves and dwarves interact with each other hundreds of years ago, you know, if you don't build out that world first, it's really hard to tell a coherent story."

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Jesse: Nathan, welcome to Creator Kit Podcast.

Nathan: Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to be here, Jesse.

Jesse: For sure. I'm super excited to have you. I, I think that the stuff that you're working on is a little bit different than the guests that we've had in the past. We've focused a lot on pure tech solutions, uh, companies building software for creators. We've deviated from that a little bit, but not much.

And what you're doing is totally unique, totally different, and this, you know, crazy combination o- of different angles that I think is one of the smartest things I've seen out there. It was the reason I reached out to you in the first place. Why don't we start with just, uh, the quick 30 second description. What is Powder Blue Media and what are you building, and then we'll get into the details.

Nathan: Yeah. Absolutely. So, we build worlds for creators. What does that mean? We partner with creators to build things that last in the creator economy between their internal ecosystem, how do the different parts of their unique businesses work together, and how can we create something sustainable in the long run, right?

Whether it's launching a new product line, whether it's partnering with a charity. Really just, like, building everything out so that we can understand how every single part of their business works in tandem together to make sure it's sustainable for the long run. And along with that too, you know, we're creators ourselves, uh, lifelong creator here, and, uh, part of what we do too, is we have our Creator Magazine that I know we'll dive into, um, just covering the space on how creators are building unique businesses and everything.

Jesse: Awesome, man. And I was doing a little bit of prep before the call, I know that you've been a creator in a bunch of different areas. I guess one way you would define yourself as a... As a writer, is that, uh... Is that accurate?

Nathan: Yeah. I'm kind of, like a master of none, wear a lot of hats type. I've always been. Um, [laughter] but I definitely think if I were to, like, pin down one thing, I definitely think about myself as a writer. I actually started writing for a San Diego Chargers football blog back in, like, 2016 or so, and that just really started the genesis for me of, like, diving into the world of online media.

I studied journals on entrepreneurship in college, really just started going full speed ahead in this world, um, as well as, you know, like, posting sketch comedy videos on YouTube back in high school, too, like that was another thing.

So again, been all over the place, but I would definitely say the writing has kind of, like, always been the core of what I've done.

Jesse: Awesome. I, I, I, uh, will need to up my research game, 'cause I'm embarrassed to admit I did not find your high school sketch video, uh [crosstalk 00:04:19] sketch comedy video, so- [laughter]

Love it. And on the sports publishing side, was that a blog that was published on its own domain or was that through another, another aggregate, or-

Nathan: Yeah, it was actually through S B Nation, if you're familiar with them. They're like a series-

Jesse: Okay.

Nathan: Of blogs and everything, and I kind of took that experience and it was awesome, you know, just like, getting that experience back when, you know, I was a teenager and everything. And I learned from doing that, it's like, "Okay, here's writing for this publication that, like, you know, has tens of thousands of people reading every single thing, you know, and like, hundreds of comments.

There was just, like, a really engaged community at the time. But also, just the dynamic of, like, online writing, you know, it was like, "Hey, as long as what you write is over 250 words, like, we'll publish it." Right, 'cause it's all about Google, and SEO, and just, like, we've just got to keep churning stuff out now, like do it on social and whatnot.

So, what I kind of took away from that was, like, "Wow, I really love the... My co-writers, and like, the community, um, and just like, helping build that." It, it really, like-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: Like, made me yearn for like, long form story telling, and that's what I've always loved growing up. I read, you know, Rolling Stones, sports Illustrated. I would just read a ton of magazine writing and online writing, like Bill Simmons, over at Grantland.

So that's what led to, um, my original publication, Unplugged, which I started in 2017 which was really, just like, long form story telling on Gen Z culture and life, 'cause I thought that was something that there was a vacuum. There wasn't really anyone writing that, like, you know, long form-esque coverage of, like, this really unique-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: Crazy world that me and my peers have grown up in, and everything.

Jesse: Yeah. It's, it's awesome, and I, I... The reason I asked the question about the blog that was originally published is I've been thinking a lot about, like, the origins of the creator economy, and what you're describing around... You didn't put it this way, but basically, like, you started reading publications that were a traditional media-

Nathan: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Jesse: Gatekeepers, publishers, editors. Then all of a sudden, you had SB, you know, the ability to publish permissionless to add... Or, you know, pretty close to permissionless to SB Nation and, you know, it's amazing how things have developed since there... Since then.

I was also curious because one of our investors at HiBeam, and, you know, one of our... One of our advisors at HiBeam is Dave Nemetz, who founded Bleacher Report-

Nathan: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Jesse: Which was, um, you know... I met him originally, uh, in working in the advertising world, and Bleacher Report was a customer, SB Nation was a customer-

Nathan: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Jesse: This whole like, kind of first wave of publications that focus on creators, even though they weren't called creators at the time, so Unplugged looked awesome, started reading a, a few, few articles, came across one on J. Cole, who's a personal favorite of mine as well.

Just like, kind of really fun, uh, alternative universe story telling, and I'm kind of sensing a theme, uh, in like, the universe, world, uh, you know, reality building type ideas, which, which are super cool. Handing it back to you, so you're working on Unplugged, and you're a creator yourself, and where does it go from there? And, and what are... What are the origins of, of Powder Blue?

Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. That's a cool story I wrote, it's like, one of my favorite things I've ever written. And I don't know what-

Jesse: It's so good.

Nathan: I don't know what was in my mind that night, but I just like, stayed up late [laughter] after the, uh, dunk contest and just wrote it. Yeah, so kind of, like when I start the blog in 2017, it starts as, you know, long form writing. We're publishing through a media publication before moving toward press, and then we launch a podcast network. We have at our peak, like, 10 shows running concurrently.

You know, like the Unplugged NBA show, we have a pop culture, you know, like movies podcast and everything. We also launched a web series called The Hot Take Show, which was kind of like a parody of, you know, First Take and stuff, where it was like, people would come on to argue, like, umbrellas are pointless, or like, the letter C should be taken out of the alphabet. Um-

Jesse: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Nathan: So it was really fun just, like, dabbling in all... Like, you know, trying to create this Gen Z media company. And in doing so, you know, we interviewed everyone from NFL players, to entrepreneurs, to creators, and I kind of just slowly started to appreciate like, again, lifelong creator and everything, just how much more interest there was in the creator economy.

Like, that phrase was becoming more and more of a buzzword in like, the start up and, you know, tech world, and everything. And I'm very fortunate, in college I got a lot of experience with like, kind of the start up ecosystem, so I kind of had one foot in the door with the creator world, and one foot in the door of just kind of, you know, pitch competitions, and start up, you know, meeting with VCs, stuff like that.

And so, kind of as I was slowly, you know, developing all this, in 2020, I started doing more creative consulting work, just to just, you know, try, uh, my hand at more B2B stuff, working with a lot of start ups and whatnot. What I started to realize is the first thing, and this was actually the genesis of Creator Mag, was that if you want to go learn about creators, right?

Like take your favorite creator, let's say like... Not necessarily someone like a Marcus Brown, that he's huge, and like, has a lot of people writing about them. But what about, you know, Ryan Higa, nigahiga who, uh, I know in your notes at the bottom is who my favorite creators are. He was the guy that, like, got me into YouTube.

But like, let's say you're an investor-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: Or start up person, like, you want to go learn more about Ryan Higa. Where's he from? What does he believe in? You know, like who is this guy? You had to, you know, either watch every single one of his videos, or scroll through all of his Instagram posts, you know, and like, maybe you'll get a sense of who he is. But a lot of creators, like, we're unorganized, you know? [laughs]

We like, are spontaneous, we're all over the place, and that's kind of where I was like, "Why is there not more long form coverage of just, the creator world and everything?" You know, I've been in the thick of it, I've been working with start ups, I see the interest there, but it's really just this notion of, like, if I'm an investor and I want to come work in the creat-... You know, like, place my bets in the, um... The creator world, like, how do I learn where to do that?

And it really just felt like there was this lack of coverage, um, with it and everything. And so, I kind of, in 2020, had taken a step back from the content production that had been the basis of Unplugged since the beginning. And for some context, too, when I formed an official LLC in 2- April 2019, dubbed it Powder Blue Media, LLC. It's based off of my lifelong love for the Chargers, so it's their famous powder blue jerseys. It's also where we get our storm cloud branding and everything.

Jesse: Nice.

Nathan: But yeah, so kind of like, end of 2020 was where this idea for Creator Mag really started, and I kind of just developed it slowly in the background over the course of the year before releasing the first edition in December and everything.

So, I know we have plenty of notes and stuff to talk about there, and I- I'll let you go, but I could go on and on, of course. [laughs]

Jesse: So the, the magazine. I came across your stuff on Twitter. I clicked in and if you go to the Powder Blue Media website, I think it's like, kind of the hero image is this... Is this, uh, magazine. I was like, "Whoa, like, I'm... I see, you know, 50 podcasts a day, maybe one catches my attention. I see, you know, 100 blog articles, maybe, uh... Maybe one every two days is, is one I click into.

And all of a sudden, there's a format that I'm very familiar with, but I haven't seen anyone do in, like, a decade, and that caught my attention, and I'd love to hear about, like... What is the... What is the mag all about? How did it come about, and how did you decide to fuse together this, like, traditional, uh, publishing format with new media in the creator world?

Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. Well, for starters too, the thing I went to grab over here is I have your copy right here, so this is our physical copy and everything.

Jesse: [laughs] Oh.

Nathan: Um-

Jesse: Amazing.

Nathan: I was able to pick them up this week, actually, uh, which was great. But yeah, no. Look, great questions and everything, and it's funny, the more I've talked with people in this space, they'll ask, you know, like... Uh, I had this one guy say, "A magazine? Really? I didn't know people still read those. Ha. Well, you learn something new everyday."

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: And I was like... I took that on the chin a little bit. [laughs] But, uh, [laughter] in all seriousness, yeah. Like, no one was doing it, it's always been my bread and butter, I really believe in this idea of long form story telling, and just, like, building worlds that people can come back to, these ever green worlds and everything.

And I always found, right, you just mentioned that J. Cole story I wrote in 2019. I still read that three years later, and I still love it, you know, and that's like, always the kind of stories where it's not so much like, heat of the moment. It has to be super, you know, hard hitting, like let's get the 250 words out as quickly as possible, while this is still relevant.

I've just always been obsessed with this, you know, long form stories you can come back to two, five, ten years later, you know? So, how the magazine really started was just something that I wanted to see exist, 'cause I was like, "This does not exist. Like, no one's doing this. I want to see this exist."

Like, there's Taylor Lorenz of New York Times, there's [inaudible 00:13:29] there's like, these different random online blogs, but like... And then, you know, journalists like Taylor, but like, Taylor's only one person, you know, [laughs] and she has a following, you know, that she... At the New York Times and now, the Washington Post, she has to report to.

So it's like, "Okay. This is something I want to see exist." And then it kind of turned into just an opportunity to network. It was like, "Okay." You know, like this is a great excuse to meet a lot of people, like the content's always gonna be great, but, you know, it's a great way to get in the door with a lot of creators, and different people in the industry.

Then it turned, as the marketing side of Powder Blue started to shift from more creative consulting for start ups to, you know, really working with creators on world building everything, it kind of just turned into a way that, you know, it's like, "Okay. We have this agency. It's a way to market it, right?" It's like, "Hey, we're building our own world. We're creative people. Come work with us."

But then finally, it just... Given the amount of outside interest we've seen in the last four or five months or so, it really turned into, like, "Wait, like, this is original IP people are interested in. You know, I've talked with some mentors who were saying, like, "Have you considered raising a pre-seed round for it?" And stuff like that.

And so, it really just evolved from this, like, thing I wanted to see exist to, like, a facet of the business, to now it's like, "No. Like, this is something, like, we're setting up for the long term, and everything." And-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: I think, like, that's just been a really exciting journey.

Jesse: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Nathan: Like, see- seeing it release, and seeing the interest in it, and everything because as you know, like, no one's really doing it. And like, regardless of the purpose it was serving for Powder Blue from it's onset to now, the, the stories at the end of the day, you know, are c- content is king. And given kind of my journey throughout the digital media world the last five, six years, like, I was always gonna make sure the stories were as good as possible.


Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: That's kind of the birth of Creator Mag and everything.

Jesse: Yeah. It- it- it's totally awesome. And, uh, like, I encourage anyone listening, um, that's interested to check it out, 'cause it's, it's, uh, extremely high quality, and the, you know, physical copy of the magazine is kind of like, a cool, uh, you know... A cool added benefit. Um, you know, not to... Not to spend the whole podcast talking about J. Cole, but [laughter] I saw the numbers for vinyl record sales, and I saw that, like, vinyl has out- outsold CDs for the first time, like, in the last year or so.

So peop- people kind of like, want this, like, analog, uh, copy of stuff they care about, and people care about creators and want to learn more about them. And, um, I... You know, tying it back to J. Cole, I have, like... I have like, four... I think I have four vinyl, uh, records. One of them is Forest Hills Drive, and it's just, like... It's fun, it's cool, it's, uh, unique.

Now getting into world building again, uh, bringing it all back, this long form content is interesting because I can picture, um, it also being... When focused on an individual creator, this could almost be like, an, an onboarding deep dive for you for your clients to understand, like, what they're all about, and understand what areas of their life and interest can be built into nodes, which I think we should talk about in-

Nathan: Yeah, no. Absolutely. Look, the first step... And this comes from my experience writing podcasts and everything, the first step I do with all my clients is I actually do an interview with them for 30 minutes. I prepare the same way I would for a podcast. And it's just, like, "Hey, I want to get to know you. I want to get to know what makes you, you know... What makes you tick." Then through that, we can, you know, figure out your higher level, what's your vision, right? What's your mission? What are your priorities? What are your values?

And then from figuring out that first layer, it's really just diving down from there. "Okay. These are your values, this is your mission. How does that tie into what we're gonna do over the next six weeks, right? What are your priorities? How can we make that into a road map, and then into six weeks sprints?

And then, the next level is, "Okay, how do we execute, uh, each week so that we're building towards this long term vision of what you want to accomplish?" And it really ties back to everything, you know, I've done through long form story telling and everything, and I think where it really started to click for me was one, with this idea of Tolkien's map.

Uh, you know, J. R. R. Tolkien, the author of Lord of the Rings said once to compose a map from a story is a wary business. So basically, this idea that, like, you know, yeah, you can start writing a book like Lord of the Rings, but if you don't know how far mountains are, uh, in between each other, right? Or like, how the elves and dwarves interact with each other hundreds of years ago, you know, if you don't build out that world first, it's really hard to tell a coherent story.

And that really stuck with me, that was one thing. The other thing was I was driving from Chicago back to Hartford, Connecticut, where my family lives, in December 2020 for the holidays. I was listening to the Dissect Podcast, which is like, this long form breakdown of-

Jesse: Mm.

Nathan: You know, artists and everything. Donald Glover is one of my favorite artists, and they broke down Because The Internet, um, his 2013 album. And, you know, basically with that album, it wasn't just music. It was a whole world he built. It was a 72 page script, it was, you know, 18 tracks or whatever the number is. He made a 20 minute short film, and it was just this... And the whole roll out for... And everything.

There was just so many little layers, and clues, and things to unpack and everything. And this idea that he built this ever green world that seven years after it came out, you have this podcast, like, diving into it with ten separate episodes or whatnot, right? And Glover had this quote about how... In an interview once, where he only wants the fans who will stick around, right, and continue to dig deeper, and continue to create new connection and meaning to his work.

And between that, Tolkien, and just kind of where I was at with this idea of, like, no one's really covering, like, the creator economy and how people are building these long term businesses. That's where this idea of world building really came from, it's just this idea that, like, you know, trends come and go, right? Three years ago, people didn't know what the hell Tik Tok was. [laughs] Now it's hard to, you know-

Jesse: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Nathan: Every single big company is copying everything they're doing.

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: And so, trends come and go, but if you really want to build things that last, especially as your fans might grow up and create, you know, new connections to your work. You might grow up and your priorities might change. You just have to really take that long term approach, and just think, "Okay. What can I do to set up my business, and my content so that I can have longevity in this space, so that five years down the road, you know, everything I created up until this point is still, you know, creating new meaning, and there's still new things to unpack with my fans, and everything.

So, that was kind of the whole thesis that came into world building. And it's been, you know, we really start taking on clients starting in 2021. My biggest client I've been working with for several months now, and it's actually really powerful. Just this, uh, Wednesday, we had kind of a end of a sprint like review call, and he said, "You know, when we first started working together, I was like, I just have to get back in front of the camera. I've got to get back to posting, posting, posting. Like, I'm not sure how much in the long term I want to do this, but I know I have to get back to doing that so that algorithm gets behind me."

But now I'm like, "You know what? I don't want to be in front of the camera anymore> I want to do a podcast. I want to be behind the camera and do documentaries. I want to do speaking engagements. I know it's like, that's exactly what the first time we talked, and I interviewed him, and I set up his synergy map and everything. And I'm like, "Cool. Like, how are we gonna build this thing for the long term?"

That's the different nodes I was building, was how can we get your brand to the point where it's not just, like, "Okay. I went viral like, four years ago and had just kind of built a following off of that, but it slowly waned." It's like, "How can we get you away from like, being dependent on the algorithm picking and choosing which of your videos to bump? How can we get away from that-"

Jesse: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Nathan: "And get you to the point we're like, "No, you can take this really valuable audience that you've built and take it in different directions, both as you grow up and your fans grow up too?" And that's where, you know, we've been working on developing this podcast, and we're looking into different speaking engagements, and all this sort of stuff.

So, that was kind of my thesis, that kind of started in the end of 2020, and it's been really cool seeing it, like, play out in real life, and just like, seeing that mindset shift. Like, I've been able to help creators, you know, come to as we've worked together.

Jesse: Very cool. And to make sure everyone's understand the kind of like, mechanical nature of this type of planning, nodes, uh... How would you define nodes? Or actually, let me try it-

Nathan: Yeah.

Jesse: You can tell me if I'm way off. Are nodes any like, focus area for a creator that might be a new channel, a new interest, a new podcast? Like, if I think about like, someone I've been listening to a lot is, uh, My First Million Podcast with with Sam Parr. He's gotten really into fitness related stuff recently. I see that he's started his own individually, personally branded YouTube channel that's kind of more fitness oriented.

Would that be considered a node? Is that a good example?

Nathan: Yeah, so basically, you hit the nail on the head. There's a million different platforms out there right now, right? It's like, "Oh, should I be... Have a Discord? Should I be on Patreon? Should I be doing this, this, or that?" It's really hard to organize, like-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: What are like, my three or four core things I should be focusing on, and how do they work together? You know, how does my merch line-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: Work with my Tik Tok? Like, what value does my Tik Tok give to my merch line-

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: And what value does my merch line give to my Tik Tok? It's really just determining... You hit the nail on the head. So the nodes would be the different parts of a creator business, but it's how do they all tie back to central nexus, which is, you know, me, my brand, my website, whatever it is. How does it tie back to the central nexus? What are my long term missions, values, you know, vision and why... I- it's not only what am I doing, but why am I doing it, and how am I doing it?

Because again, you can be on 10 different platforms and doing all these different things, but if you're doing that, your focus is just split way too much and you're not gonna be able to, you know, execute.

Jesse: So smart. So smart, and a lot of focus... Like, a lot of focus that I've seen has been more on the execution side, like, for, um... Or focus that I've seen from people talking about the, like, machinery of creator business-

Nathan: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Jesse: Two that come to mind, Gary V's, like, famous content machine, it's basically all about like, "Hey, we did this podcast. Now we're gonna break it into a 15 second clip for Instagram, and make it into an audiogram, and then we're gonna pull some quotes, and publish them to Tik Tok, and repurposing content that's already produced. And I think there's a couple really big businesses that have been built on helping enable that type of redistribution, like, Jellysmack-

Nathan: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Jesse: Uh, comes to mind, like gigantic. Listened to Nas, uh, daily. I think his name is Nas-

Nathan: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

Jesse: If I remember. Uh, he's like, starting a whole studio to repurpose content. But not enough people are like, drawing it back to the source and saying, like, like you are, saying, "Why are we focusing on certain areas? What areas are we not focusing on that we should, beyond just repurposing content, but actually going back to like, the wellspring of creativity and seeing what types of new content are we not doing?

Or maybe it's not even content. What things are we not focusing on as a creator business that could set us up for that next five, ten years.

Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, uh, you hit the nail on the head again too, it's like, not just the what, like what are we doing, um, but it's the why. Like, "Okay. I know I could repurpose and splice up my content for Tik Tok, you know, and spend five to ten hours a week doing that, but why am I doing it, right?

It it because I want to reach younger- [crosstalk 00:25:07]

Jesse: Yeah.

Nathan: That might not listen to an entire podcast? You know, is it because I want to catch the latest trend? Because if you're not really focused on the latest trend and everything, then why do you have to spend that five to ten hours on Tik Tok, you know? That's, that's really the core of it, for sure.

Jesse: Fascinating. Okay, so you guys are building out this amazing business. What's the current state? Can... Are you accepting new clients? What's, what's the, uh, for anyone that's interested, where are you guys at, how can they work with you, and where can they-

Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. So we've kind of in beta, uh, so far, especially working with, uh, our main client right now, but starting in March, we're opening it up. We have kind of different levels where, you know, our first level is just, like, hop on a call for an hour, we'll help you build out your synergy map, and like, go from there. Our second kind of medium level is-

Jesse: Uh-huh [affirmative]

Nathan: You know, more of like, a three months. Like, we'll build out your custom process and system using what we've kind of like, internally built, and then custom build it to fit your needs. And that's more of like, a medium level, like we'll, you know, talk three times over three months or so. And then, there's kind of our full package which is like, we're gonna help you launch that product, like, we're gonna help you, you know, uh, really build out that new node, and really help you launch your world.

So we do offer those kind of different services right now. If people are interested, they can sign up on our wait list. So, they can find that at PowderBlue.Media/world and then, starting in March we're really gonna open that up to more of the general creator public. And then yeah, along with working on that, we're really just focused on rolling out season two of the magazine, which we're really excited about.

So, video essays start rolling out February 27 with the mag dropping in late March. If people want to get our drops, you can go on our website and sign up to get notifications, as well as, uh, we partner with [inaudible 00:26:58] is a great way to get texts or emails, however you want, uh, to keep in touch.

And then, yeah, you know, as you said, Jesse, like, we met through Twitter and everything. I find more and more of the new connections I'm making nowadays are through the Twitter DMs, which has been awesome in this space-

Jesse: Definitely.

Nathan: And everything. But definitely keep me up, drop me a line or DMs at @bynategl on Twitter.

Jesse: Also man, I feel like there is so much more to, to dig into here. I just wanted to thank you for, for coming on the podcast. It was amazing to hear about this, what I think is like, kind of defining theory on, on, uh, creator world building and, you know, it's pretty awesome to see someone that's not just thinking and writing about it, but actually building a real business on top of it.

So, thanks again for telling us a little bit about what you've got going on. I think we might be hanging out in New York at some point soon, so I look forward to that, and I will be checking my mailbox daily for my first issue of the magazine. Thanks again.

Nathan: Yeah, no. Sounds great, Jesse. Thanks so much for, uh, having me on and, uh, yeah. Looking forward to hanging out in New York City.


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